Presbyterian Vote on Homosexual Marriage

I believe that the Churches with some of the most sound doctrine are the ones being attacked the most because they have the potential for great impact in their ministries.

My prayer is that all people by staring at the cross of grace and mercy be put on a forward moving spiritual journey of sanctification and not just get by with what “feels good” to the current culture.   This is why I try to contrast Gods contraconditional love “God loving us in spite of our sins” with cultures “unconditional love”.   In my experience man has spent a lot of time unconditionally loving each other into sick and depraved ways of thinking…. Long discussion will probably be misunderstood by many.

http://wcco.com/local/presbyterians.split.gay.2.1795258.html

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8 thoughts on “Presbyterian Vote on Homosexual Marriage

  1. centralityofthegospel Post author

    Michelle said:

    Michelle Gunderson
    My prayer is that ANY and ALL judgment of any kind for ANYONE be left up to God and God alone. Even “subtle” judgment. We’re called to love. Simple. Just love. So simple is His message that anyone can “get it”, even me.

  2. centralityofthegospel Post author

    Bruce Schulzetenberg said:

    It is possible and legitimate to judge an act as moral or immoral or right or wrong. This is done all the time by parents regarding the behaviors of one’s childeren. However, a parent does not reject or condemn the child over bad behaviors or choices. If someone is driving down the wrong side of the road, I see no problem with informing the … See Moredriver and doing it without jugdment or condemnation to the driver’s character or motivation. Sin threatens the soul of the sinner, and as sin has a social impact, it also can morally harm others. Calling attention to wrong direction then becomes an act of mercy toward the misdirected and those the latter can harm.

  3. centralityofthegospel Post author

    One of my favorite verses is about how in our weaknesses we find strength in Christ, In other words by acknowledging our sin we find Christs strength.

    Anytime you reduce the full Gospel to just God loves us you lost Gods full love because Gods loves sinners.

    The Gospel portrays two sides of a message:

    The Gospel

    The Gospel of Jesus Christ and Jesus’ purpose on the cross tell us …
    We are more sinful and weak than we ever cared to admit and (why Jesus had to die for me) …
    We are more loved and accepted than we ever dared to hope (why Jesus was glad to die for me).

    Unfortunately to remember the good news we need to be reminded of the bad news that we are all sinners saved by Grace. Paul continuously reminds man of the bad news so it will point us to Christ!!!! Anytime we quite embracing the bad news we lost the transformation contraconditional love of the Gospel!

    We need to remember the bad news so the Gospel news is actually good news.

  4. centralityofthegospel Post author

    BTW Contraconditional love is much better than unconditional love because it understands and empathizes with sin…it comes along sinners…. but it does not just accept it!

    It places man on a forward moving journey of sanctification.

  5. michelle gunderson

    Because I know, personally, so, so many gays and lesbians, I have found that by showing up and loving them, that’s all God asked my heart to do. Conversations about morality, legality, right, wrong, good, bad…..for ME, I haven’t been nudged to be a part of that. Is it my christian “duty”? Nope. Not for ME. There are others, such as yourselves, that are much, much more understanding and knowledgable. That is not being sarcastic, it’s truthful! I so respect all your comments. I just know for my heart, God spoke to me about 4 years ago this past June and was pretty specific that I love. For so many of my GLTB brothers and sisters, I know I may be the only “Christ” love they ever see. Before I had so many gay brothers and sisters as dear friends, I would have shunned them (NOT Christ-like). But once I saw broken hearts and rejection, I couldn’t do this anymore. There were faces and stories and “stuff”, just like me. Note I have not said ONCE that I agree with any lifestyle decisions. But I won’t judge them. Not at all. I have yet to see one of my gay friends come to Christ by anyone having a “religious, politically correct” discussion. BUT I have seen people come to Christ with people who moved up alongside of them, loved them, cared for them, had fun with them, held their hand, and listened. That’s my only job. Trying to plant a seed that they are worthy, valuable, amazing people, just like all of us are. It sounds simplistic. It is. I have to have it that way because I can’t figure out the tough stuff. I am more than comfortable leaving that discussion elsewhere! Thank you for the comments, all of them. It is interesting and I am always open to learning. I choose to just show up and love. Until Christ whispers something else in my heart, that’s what I’m going to do. Others are called to do other things and I encourage them to do whatever Christ has whispered to their hearts.

  6. centralityofthegospel Post author

    Michelle,

    I agree about the judgement. There are many self-righteouss, pharasaical “sinners” in todays world that serve to only entrench the side with differing opinions more deeply. I have a set of friends that were broken up due someone who was trying to show “love” to someone who “came out” but did so with an M.O. that was pharasaical and self-righteouss. All the friend took sides and sided with the friend that was homosexual. I was the only person allowed to go to their wedding of the person that ostracized my friends. However, over the 25 years of knowing her it was obvious to me the issue was as much with her self-righteoussness as much as the sin of homosexuality. This attitude of hers made it very hard to get close to them as friends.

    The point, for me, is not one of judgement as much as one of scripture. I go back to my pain to power principal. In an acknowledgement of our weaknesses (sin) we find Christs strength. The issue with this is that many people want to point out the sins of others but have never wrestled with their own sins … so they point out the sins of others but are doing so in a self-serving, self-righteouss, pharasaical way where they want to get something FROM God …… just like the elder brother in the parable of the Prodigal son.

    What a great world it would be if “sinners” could get together and repent of their sins without someone rating some sins over and above other sins in a self-rightouess, judgemental way.

    At the same time I see a lot of selfish love being disguised as “unconditional”. We tend to use the word “unconditional” when we don’t want to change or just to maintain the status quo. Unconditional is way of maintaining peace and comfort and whats in it for me (WIIFM). This is why I say Jesus’ love was bigger and better than mans unconditional love. He loves us enough to move us to change! For me, personally, I needed this change.

    My .02c worth

  7. michelle gunderson

    well said! 😉 . I TRULY appreciate a mature conversation with the respect I see here and learning from other’s input. That’s why I can LOVE the BODY of Christ, because if I’m a fingernail (LOL!) I really need the hand to survive! I need everyone in the BODY because it’s obvious that I don’t do or know everything! I can only do what I can do. Others can do other things. Seriously, appreciate all the input, ideas, and knowledge that I don’t have! We all do different things in the Body, don’t we! I love how Jesus makes it personal for all of us. I SO appreciate that “sin rating” comment stuff too. Man, if anybody knew some of my sin that isn’t visible on the outside……..yuk. God bless! Seriously! Appreciated the comments! 😉

    My .05 C worth!!!!

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